Soft spoken and yet possessed of an intense energy that fizzes and crackles when he gets onto a subject about which he’s passionate – which is frequently – Jonah Matranga would be a fascinating subject for interview at any time. Yet here, talking about his work on the new Sons of Alpha Centauri album, we have something of a quandary, for he’s very much a silent partner in an enigmatic act.
Nevertheless, the challenge of providing lyrics and melodies to completed compositions comes with its own raft of challenges, and Jonah talks with quiet enthusiasm about the band, his experiences working with them, and the creation of excellent new album, Pull (reviewed here).
Thank you so much for agreeing to the chat.
Yeah, happy to be cared about!
Let me find we found my questions… So, my name is Phil and I write for an English website called SonicAbuse, and it’s really nice to catch up and see how things been going with the band.
Cool – well, throw a few questions!
So, to start with, Sons of Alpha Centauri have quite a lengthy history but, for the first six or seven years, things seemed to move pretty slowly because there was a lot of other stuff kind of happening in the background – stuff like Last Days of Summer – so did things start to get a lot more focused kind of when you teamed up with the band to do some vocals?
So, this is interesting. I mean I don’t really know how the band works. My experience with the band is that they got in touch with me as an instrumental rock band who liked my singing; and I love to do sort of more personal connecting with people that like the music and collaborate with people in different ways as a singer.
You know, if I was a drummer or a bassist, I could hop around and play on people’s tunes, but the voice in pop music has a place where it feels different to hop around and play with different people. But anyway, long story short, they asked me to do it, so I did a few songs, and that led to a few more, and now I’ve made two albums with them and it’s strange because I don’t have anything to do with the music, or the art, or the planning, or the identity of it, or anything – I’m just the voice… and I make up the words and the melodies.
So, it’s funny because I was just listening to the record for the first time, really, the other day. And I remember thinking that these guys they’re so… they’re very patient. And I don’t really know these guys well enough to know about that. I just know that they’re very patient with the music, they want to make something that they love – as far as I can tell – and I love being a part of that. So, I can’t really speak to their decisions, I’m just a singer man [laughs].
I’m glad you brought up this idea of forming a connection to the music, because the band’s first album – obviously it was instrumental, but it had a lot of heavy themes running through the music – environmentalism & WWIII – themes that are, perhaps, more pertinent now than back in 2007, but in terms of your relationship, how do you start the process of developing the music?
It’s totally segmented – everyone does their own thing. I’ve never done anything quite like this, honestly. I’ve sung on other people’s tunes over the years, as well as all my own stuff, and yeah, it’s always fun. But I’ve never had anything be quite so thoroughly thought out, packaged, and released – and here I am doing an interview about this – it’s interesting!
It’s a different experience for me because, as far as the music goes, I really have no idea why they write what they write or what they think about when they write it. We chat about life when we hang out, but honestly, those occasions are very much around the music and, they’re lovely people, but they’re in England, I’m in America. We just gather around the campfire of the songs.
They send me the songs pretty much completely done. Sometimes they’ll send me a rough mix where we know it’ll be fancier by the time it’s all done, and I lay down my vocals to something not quite fully done; but still, the music, the arrangement – everything’s in place. So, I was also listening, and I was thinking “man, I should get them to send me the tracks next time, before they do it”, because the producer in me wants to chop some bits out and rearrange some things. I always think about that stuff.
But, anyway, no, there’s nothing about that – it really is just a very music-based experience, with as few words as possible exchanged about what it’s about, and I just kind of go with what the music is telling me. It’s a really lovely thing to be given these canvasses to sing over, dance around, do a thing on and throw some paint. So, yeah, it’s a very musical thing, very intuitive, and I enjoy it.
Quite aside from the challenge of trying to place yourself within music that’s already finished, do you have a process for crafting the melodies and the lyrics to fit the music that’s presented to you?
Well, they give me a lot of time! [Laughs]
That’s the thing, they’re very patient. It’s not like they need the tracks by next week. They send me some tracks and I literally won’t know when or if they’ll ever be released. I remember the first time I sang over some of their tracks, it was just fun to do. And, frankly, usually when I do it with someone like this, there’s… I mean these guys have jobs too, they’re not trying to get famous or whatever (as far as I know), and they’re just making music because they adore it, they want to share it with the world, and…
So, we never even talked about this part. I wouldn’t just spit something out because it needed to get done, but the neat part is in the arrangement. I’ve done this same process before, as in singing to music that was done. When I was in Far, Sean would write… a lot of our growth together as friends was, he learned to write things that I could sing over and the shape of it, so it happened over a long period of time. But Far was a band I was in; it was my band in a way – it was our band. Whereas with Sons, I suppose it is inherently our music, with Sons, but it’s their band. It’s not my band. I’m just a sing… a person making sounds with my voice [laughs].
I’ll say this, they don’t tell me to do this, but one thing I tend to do with these guys is that I’ll really lay back. I actually write fewer vocals for their songs than if I was writing, or if it was my band. Largely because I honour the fact that they started as an instrumental band, and I want the voice to fit into the recordings like it’s another instrument. It’s actually mixed pretty low, like in the verses, and then the chorus comes, and there’s a musical figure that I hope goes with the music really well. But, really in this collaboration, more than any other, I’m trying to be an instrument – as in a sonic instrument – rather than a vocalist who is trying to establish the identity of the band.
I’m writing about some heavy shit – sometimes I know clearly what I’m writing about, sometimes I don’t, but I have no idea if anybody else cares about it. And I just try to stay out of the music’s way and have my own experience with it. It’s really neat.
It’s a really interesting approach, because post rock and post metal do lend themselves to that more atmospheric approach – it’s almost anti frontman in a way – the antithesis of, say, Robert Plant, with a focus on ambience and space.
I like sitting with it. It’s funny because they’re incredibly influenced by the music I was making in the 90s, so sonically it’s familiar, although everyone of course makes music differently, and also there is just a… I don’t know if it’s a British thing, or a those-guys thing, but there’s a steadiness to it that I’ve really come to appreciate. Anyone that I collaborate with, I really try and sort of figure out where they’re going. I don’t try to please them, necessarily, but I try to please the song, if that makes any sense, I try to serve the song.
It’s funny that you mention Plant, because I grew up… Zeppelin is in my DNA probably more than any other rock band in the history of the universe. I actually really love, as fiery as he can be, I think he stays out of the way really well in a lot of Zeppelin stuff. It’s one of the things that makes them as timeless as they are – there’s a great balance between the vocal hooks, the riffs, the drum bits, the bass bits – everyone is taking their turn in that band. So, I try to bring that spirit in the context of everything that I do. But it’s funny that you mention that in this context, because I’m trying to be a singer just letting everyone else have their turn and, yeah, it is a kind of anti-frontman kind of thing, having been a frontman for all of my life, so it’s kind of cool to…
Well, we’ve never played live shows, so I’ve never been in the front of anything, and yeah, it is more of a post rock thing that I kind of was around at the beginning of. So, it’s neat to see where it’s gone and to be able to sing over something like it all these years later. It’s really cool.
In terms of naming the songs – are you pulling things out of lyrics, or do songs have titles or working titles?
I think I might have setlist titles when I go in and write… I literally forget. I feel like last time I was over there in the studio… the way it goes down is that there’s this amazing studio, it’s just like being in an old English fable, it’s like this countryside vibe and it’s so sweet. This guy called Dan Lucas runs it and I think it’s called Anchor Baby studios. Anyway, it’s just a lovely place to be, so I go there when I’m doing tours and stuff, and I’ll go there for a few days, and I’ll have been listening to and living with the music, but I’ll kind of get in there and I’ll show them lyric sheets and… I feel like last time, they asked if had any ideas, and I feel like I might have improvised some, based on lyrics, or ideas for lyrics. And then, I’m almost positive that at other times… I think when I met them, everything was like “song 98”, “song 42”, they didn’t even have song titles, which I kind of enjoyed. But now there are song titles, and I certainly don’t care about them. I suppose I would care if they were naming them something that annoyed me or something… but they all make sense to me. They’re fine, they’re song titles.
You know, I haven’t even looked that closely at the titles compared to what the songs are, but yeah, there’s some interplay there. But it’s not something… I’ve made it very clear that I only care about making music that we all love. Whatever happens to it after that, and the naming of a song is a part of that, is an after-the-song thing.
The baby comes and then you decide what to name it. I’m more concerned about the baby [laughs].
So, when it comes to influences for you, are there any particular areas that you gravitate towards, whether literary, socio-political, or personal?
These tunes… I remember clearly when we were doing the first record we did, there was a lot going on socio-politically (well, I suppose there never isn’t); but there was a lot going on loudly, in terms of politics, at the time I was writing. So, I think… and I was also thinking that they were heavy, angry riffs. At its worst, this kind of music could easily be toxic-masculinity, tough-guy kind of stuff. And I’ve never been a tough guy kind of singer, and I’ve even written songs making fun of people [laughs] getting all angry over loud music, but really, they live in the fucking ‘burbs with their mom.
So, I try to… when I feel anger in a song, or in myself, I try to speak on something that’s sort of worth being upset about. Sometimes it’s socio-political, and sometimes it’s personal, and sometimes I don’t even know. But I would say, between the choices you gave me, that I’m a total word nerd. I do love just the sound of syllables combined with melody and the music – I adore that.
And I can get pretty Bowie with my lyrics, so it’s sort of beat poet, surrealist, let the words come in and figure out what they mean kind of thing. I think the last record we did is more personal in many ways, but not about specific things in my life. But it is coming from more of a reflective, out-there place. The last one felt a little more focused on the world I was in. but I’m a little more interested in the less apparent things in the world than I used to be. I think I used to be more into engaging with the fight, and now I’m a little more spaced out. We’ll see. I don’t know.
I think it’s a challenge to take personal elements and make them relatable, but also leave them open to interpretation, so you’re not taking refuge in your own personal angst but giving the audience an emotion to hang on to, without stipulating what it has to be.
Yes, I’ve done a bit of the former, as in growing up, I think a lot of us have – certainly a lot of us song writers. So, I’ve done a lot of preaching to the choir [laughs], and I love it all. I’m not a person who has many regrets. I’m doing my best to be a good human and looking back I cringe a bit [laughs]
But the stuff I’m doing now, yeah, I’m definitely more focused on the feeling, and less on “the message”. I love a message, but even when I was writing a more overt message, I’ve always believed that the heavier the subject you’re writing about, the better that fucking lyric and melody has to be. Because I hate the person who… no, I don’t hate the person. I hate it when a person comes out and they’re like: “I wrote a song about Africa, so it’s heavy… it’s an important song.” Well, it’s not important because the subject matter is important, it’s just another shitty song about a heavy subject!
So, I try to have the musical, artistic aspect of it measure up if I’m really going for something that might have its own weight outside of the song. And, yeah, I can’t think of anything that’s speaking about a specific thing in this album – it’s more about where I’m at in the world now, and some if it makes sense to me, and some it doesn’t.
And I love the fucking record, I’ll say that.
I know you said that you’re a bit detached form the other elements of it, so you may have nothing on this, but this form of music really lends itself to physical formats, with liner notes and art – do you get involved at all, or is entirely outside your purview?
In this case, they entirely deal with it and a lot of that is because, when I get involved, I get really involved. Maybe too involved. My former bandmates might say that! [Laughs]
And so, it’s really good for me to put a little line on it and just not give a fuck about the packaging, or the visual parts. I have made so many albums in my life, as in physical albums, and whatever else happens, for me, at this point in my life, to have this fucking row of things that I’ve made. CDs, of course, and especially vinyl, because it’s such a visual format that I grew up on. I just love the physical aspect of music so much.
So, probably, I f I were in on it… Their packaging tends to be very simple, and that’s a good thing, it’s very steady, it matches the music, it’s very right there. It’s not trying to do too much or be too much. It’s very humble, for me, and I adore that. I’d probably mess it up and make it freakier and more hand drawn and scrappier and weirder. That’s what I tend to do when I get involved and I think it’s good for me not to be involved, because I’d probably drive everyone crazy.
And, again, there’s something so pleasing to me about being able to let go of this, especially as it’s become something that’s more released, and I’m doing interviews about it, and people who have never heard any of my other music, are getting into this and they think it’s cool. S
o, it’s really nice to be part of something in this way that I’ve just never done in my life. But yeah, visuals – nothing – and we’re having a neat moment here because usually the singer knows everything about all this stuff, and he’s got his way on the album art. Lots of singers of all genders that I know – we are this way. And, yeah, I’m just really enjoying for once in my life not doing that.
But I also understand that for you as an interviewer it’s kind of split up – usually there’s one person in the band who can kind of carry everything, and that’s usually the singer because they can speak to the lyrics, and they know enough about the other shit that they can talk about it. But I’m not holding up my end of the bargain at all, but all I can say is that I believe in it, I believe in them, and I feel very grateful to be a guest in their musical world – it’s exciting.
So, this is where I throw another curveball and you say “no!”
I love it, I’m into it!
Again, when I think about the musical journey, and the songs of SOAC always has this wonderful flow with or without lyrics, it’s very dynamic…
Yeah, yeah!
So, for you as a lyricist, are you made aware in advance of the sequence of thew songs, so if you wanted to you could create the same ebb and flow through the lyrics, or is that all done after?
Yeah, no! [Laughs] There are actually two songs that are sequenced that are… I heard them and I was kind of “hah? I wouldn’t have put these two songs in a row”. Largely because they exist in the same key and the notes, I chose… the songs are very different tempo wise, and I’m not sure anyone will ever clock this, but for me, there were a lot of similar phrase and, at first, I wasn’t into it. I wasn’t against it and, again, it’s really fun for me to listen to this stuff and not be attached to it the way I normally am.
But, the first time I heard it, I was a little surprised, and now – having heard it a couple of times, I haven’t asked them this, but maybe they put it together because there’s this neat juxtaposition, with maybe some through-lines that I hadn’t even thought about when I was singing the songs. And maybe it’s just a random thing that only I’m noticing, so I’m not even going to say which songs. Because I had nothing to do with it, it all happened after, and I love the thoughtfulness of the questions, and I think it’s hilarious that I have nothing to say! [Laughs]
It’s an interesting set up because you strike me as someone who’s very kind of engaged with that side of things, but then I was talking with a friend of mine about exactly this – how collaborating and ceding control of the process can push you way outside of your comfort zone to create something totally different – is that something that you have found with this?
Oh certainly. As an overly involved artist historically, with management, with the band, I’m just fucking involved! So, this has been very therapeutic to me. They didn’t say anything about it. They’d probably like it if I was far more involved, honestly. And it’s not a bad thing that I’m not. It just started as something so informal and so personal, and it’s turned into more of a thing. And, I love how organically it happened, but that’s the way it started.
Because, when someone sends me a tune to sing over, unless they really want me to dig in and rip it apart, which kind of turns it into a different kind of collaboration, a more intensive one and one that might require more physical presence, or at least more steady discussion and all that stuff. So, it was nice for me to just lean back and, honestly, the longer we go, the more it feels like such a relief because all these other things… I’m obsessing over eight different songs while I’m talking to you right now. There’s just hooks in my head, and this packaging, and what am I going to do with that… it’s just the way it works.
So, this music is just this calm little oasis where I get to come, sing my bits in the lovely English countryside; or just send them vocal parts from here, which is also lovely because I get to sing stuff at home and send it to them. And then it comes out, however many months or years later, and I get to listen to it and go “oh yeah, that was a good part”, and I haven’t been obsessing over it, which is very unlike me.
So, yeah, I recommend it to every over-involved singer person ever – I recommend you find a collaboration where you don’t do shit except sing.
One thing I love is what hip hop has brought to us these days is the BPM and, of course, the technology with the grids and all that stuff – people can say all the bad things, and some of the bad things are true, but the BPM and the ability for me to sing a song at 160BPM, send it to England and have it popped in a track that’s a hip hop track, a folk track, a metal track or whatever it is, and someone can take it out of context and sample it. I mean hip hop brought sampling and the BPM and it just changed everything.
And I love the idea of my voice, at this point, as this disembodied thing. It can end up as a hook in a hip hop song. It can end up as a background vocal in a song I’m not doing vocals on, or it could end up being the whole vocal for a whole band and still it’s just me and the voice. And then I just completely let go, and let it be whatever. I mean, I trust them to do something good and I’m happy they make records where I like the way they sound. But, even if they didn’t, there’s something really beautiful about this, and I’m really happy to see anyone else caring about it, because I think they deserve it. It’s a different kind of hard rock to me. It’s so similar… the influences are so deep in this music, that 90s Sacramento kind of post-rock, riffy, Bad Brains-meets-Fugazi-meets-Neurosis… I mean, I don’t know what the fuck their influences are, I’m thinking of mine. It’s a different twist on it and they have this understatedness to them as humans and the way they make music. It’s really nice. I like it.
It’s interesting that you threw out bands like Neurosis and ISIS and Fugazi and bands like that, and certainly their influence does run through post rock and post metal like a vein…
Neurosis… ISIS came a little bit later, but Neurosis are serious fucking innovators in this world. I don’t think they get enough love, frankly. I remember seeing them in the early 90s and thinking that no one did anything like that. I was deeply, deeply influenced, and I’ve always loved non-rock music, and I’ve always loved really odd – my favourite Miles Davis albums are In a Silent Way and Bitches’ Brew and all that really weird, out-there shit that he did. And I love Eno and I love ambient music, and I love a lot of things that have nothing to do with rock ‘n’ roll and have a lot more to do with a lot of space and ease.
So, again, I don’t know what their influences are, but I feel like they’ve certainly got some ambient influence to them that I really enjoy. And I don’t know if they even know who Neurosis are, but I know who Neurosis are, and I hear it in the music, so fuck it!
I like that idea, though, of having a lot of influences, and especially non-rock because, inevitably, if your influences sit in one place, you sound like your influences. And it’s always great when bands take from a wealth of places – especially ambient. When the Deftones started doing those scratchy, ambient pieces, that was cool. You get much mor interesting music through diversity.
Yeah, I mean having grown up with Chino in a rock way, and all the ways that Far and Deftones influenced each other, I remember specifically Chino and I bringing each other very non-rock influences (certainly non-heavy rock influences) and, yeah, just getting into all kinds of crazy shit.
And, one of the first things that I did with Chino was we did a cover of a Sade song of No Ordinary Love – I sang about half of it, and he sang about half of it, and I love that you brought them up because I hear a lot of influence of Far and Deftones on Sons. So, I don’t know whether they’re picking up the ambient rock through us or they, along with us, loved stuff like Neurosis; seeing as we’re namechecking them over and over again… but then, to me, they really are a big bang in that particular splinter of heavy music. Anyway, it’s really neat, and I love that you brought up the ‘tones.
Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me!
