With new album Nightmares As Extensions Of The Waking State [reviewed by SonicAbuse here] having already established itself as one of the most powerful if the band’s storied career, Katatonia returned after a troubled few years which saw long-standing member Anders Nystrom departing the fold. As is so often the case, when a well-known band member leaves, fans descend into fierce speculation as to the whys and wherefores, not to mention whether the band will survive. Inevitably such speculation is hardly helpful for a band, but Katatonia seemed singularly unphased by it all, calmly recruiting a pair of new guitarists – Sebastian Svalland and Nico Elgstrand – both of whom fit in like they’ve always been there, to set about the business of a new album.
The band’s confidence is hardly misplaced. Nightmares As Extensions Of The Waking State is a phenomenal album. Slow burning and intense, you may not take it all in on the first, the second, or even the fifth listen, but you will find something new to enjoy each time around, and you’re also likely to still be listening any number of years down the line. We caught up with Sebastian to talk about the development of the new album, his induction into the band, and what the future holds.
A band like Katatonia has a long-established legacy. Coming into a band like that, I guess you’re caught between wanting to make your mark on the band and help them to evolve their sound; but, at the same time, respect the legacy that exists.
Of course, especially if it’s a band you listened to before. Katatonia for me has… you have those bands that you look up to, that you respect, and you think they’re pushing the vehicle of music forward and that is exactly it, as you say. I do respect the legacy very much because I liked it a lot.
But obviously, it would be really good if I could contribute to something that wasn’t… [stops and laughs] You know, I love Katatonia’s music for what it is as a listener and I don’t want to fuck up either so yeah, you’re right.
But again, Katatonia is a band that is known for progression and, on this record, it feels like there’s been a push forward, with more of an emphasis on atmosphere and those little electronic elements; and it’s also really cool to hear the way your guitars weave between all of that without bludgeoning the listener.
I mean, hats off to Adam Noble, who mixed the record. He’s a fucking magician in the sense of how well he made… well, basically that thing that you just said – how the rhythm guitars fit in in such a different way.
It’s very… these days I don’t listen to a lot of new music, so it’s quite a bold statement for me to say, but I don’t hear a lot of bands that have this sound, so to speak. I think the sound is, in itself, great. I’m very happy with it.
It does sound amazing – and the album itself was initially self-produced with Jonas taking on the bulk of the production responsibilities, right?
I mean, yes. In the sense of how the songs were going to be, then yes, absolutely. We recorded with a guy that the band has used before, and he did everything so that it came as a perfect package for Adam. I think it felt very professional and good in that sense.
Was it all done remotely? Was there a lot of back and forth online to get the album to sound as you wanted it?
The back and forth in the sense of the mixing itself was Jonas. I don’t think there was a lot. I think Adam has never done a band like this – he’s more, let’s say more pop, or rock-pop, so I guess that he was a bit, you know… it was a bit different for him, a different experience.
But I think that, as far as I remember from Jonas talking about it, we just wanted him to do his thing because he’s the pro. A serious pro, as well, so yeah – the space, for example, is amazing. Especially if you play it through good speakers. The first time I really listened to it was through some big speakers and we were like “holy shit! This is so good!”
There’s a lot of trust between a band and a mix engineer – what made you decide to go outside of the more well-known metal producers?
As you said before, Katatonia has been about progression. I guess, if they wanted to stay in a pocket – even if the pocket was still very good… I mean, you listen to the Great Cold Distance, it’s one of the most timeless albums – both in writing and the sound that you will have for a long time. Jens Bogren did that album and it’s fucking phenomenal. And you could stay with the same guy forever, but you’d also then have that same thing forever, so to speak.
I think that sometimes you have to take a risk if you want to, you know, accomplish good things. You have to risk it with different decisions. But, I mean, in the sense of looking at what he has done elsewhere, let’s say like the sound of Nothing but Thieves – it’s just a perfect recipe. It’s like, “OK, who the fuck mixed this? Let’s take him!”
You have certain guys that you just know that, OK, even if they have a really bad day, it’ll still sound fucking amazing [laughs].
In terms of your involvement, how complete were the songs when you entered the band?
The ideas were quite laid out. And, you know, in the beginning, when you’re trying someone new, you’re not putting everything in front of them. I mean, you kind of do, that’s the way to become, let’s say, friends and stuff like this. But stuff evolves and you don’t know how it’ll go, so the more time we spent, the more stuff I got to hear -but, yeah, most of the stuff was just about to be finalised, let’s say, when I joined.
So, my contribution to the music itself, it’s not really me there. In the studio, I had maybe some things – like some nitpicking here or there – but that’s just detail level. It’s not going to make any big difference [laughs].
And what about getting the songs to the point that you were ready to record – obviously Jonas was producing, but does the band have any trusted outside ears that help to give an idea of how the sound is progressing, or do you keep it all very close within the band?
I think we keep it all very close. Jonas probably has some friends he likes to check this with – I’m not sure, so don’t quote me on it – but I think maybe yes. He likes to talk about it. Within the band, I like to say what I think about stuff, because it’s very healthy to do that in a way.
Katatonia, for me, is very much an albums band – and you mentioned The Great Cold Distance as a perfect example of an album that flows from start to finish; and I think this album has that flow as well. It’s a really coherent piece of music as a whole. In terms of sequencing, did you have an idea in mind when you started, or was that something that came together once everything was recorded?
I think maybe there were some ideas – you always have that kind of feeling, when you write a song. Sort of where you feel it will go. The track list is good in that sense. I think that this album – I like the way that you said there, about “album music” and stuff like that. I also think that’s what this album is. It’s very much the whole package, if you compare it to Sky Void of Stars – I mean that album also has that, but the songs are more direct, I think. Here the songs are maybe something that will grow on you and give you a feeling that they exist in relation to the other songs on the album.
It feels to me like this one’s sequenced for vinyl, because Temporal offers a really nice conclusion to the first half and then you’re eased back in with Departure Trails, which is almost Pink Floyd-y – did you have that formatting in mind?
I don’t know if that was in mind. I think, you know, whenever… I think this is maybe something that you’d sit and nitpick later on. For example, if you have five songs that are 20 minutes long in the beginning, then you’d have a problem pressing vinyl! [laughs]
So, yes, this is something to be considered, but it’s not something that I thought much about. It is what it is and, if there would be problems, you’d have to take it when it comes to you [laughs]
In terms of getting the sound right for your guitars in the studio, do you prefer to use old school valve amps, or do you use modern systems to get very level sounds.
Do you know the Finnish brand Neural DSP? They’ve always been great tools for recording direct into the sound interface and I think that nowadays, although there are some brands doing this very well, I think Neural DSP does it the best. It’s just so easy, you know.
I think, for me as well… obviously, whenever you play with real amps and real cabs, you get a feeling that it’s better, obviously. But if you want to do stuff more efficiently and be able to, let’s say re-amp (I mean, you can do that with a real amp too), we can just be anywhere, really. You don’t have to be in a big studio, and everything needs to be perfectly mic’d up, or anything like that. That can happen later on, so we use the Neural DSP stuff. I think they’re a phenomenal company and I think their pedals are also great – it’s something we use for the guitars live as well.
I guess it gives you quite a lot more control over the sound when you’re going straight into the desk that way.
Everything is so nice if you have the best pedals or the best amps or whatever, It’s so great. But, in the end, there’s one guy who has to mix all of that and, if the guy who is recording it isn’t there, it’s best to give them something they can fiddle with, so to speak.
Do you ever get the sense… I don’t know, I grew up twiddling with four-track recorders and trying to get the perfect sound out of a battered amp with fag burns on the top of it – do you ever get the sense, there’s almost too much choice trying to settle on your sound when you can race through so many different settings with equipment like that?
Yeah. There is obviously… the whole thing with technology nowadays, especially with the Neural DSP pedal, it’s like “OK, what do you want to do?”
We can do everything, kind of. So, I guess it’s… for me, I never really had amps when I was young. I never had… I just had, maybe, a little combo thing. But I went on to the digital stuff really early on… and that’s a bit sad as well, because it never is the same. Now it’s fucking close, but it’s not the same. So, I’m living in an apartment now, but when I get a house, the dream would be to have something like that. I’m moving over to the UK, probably at the beginning of next year or something like that. I don’t know – where I’m moving in the UK, the houses are very packed close together, but the dream would be, say, to have a little house and have a little room in the yard, or wherever, where the cab could all be set up and you could just be loud and stuff like that.
But yeah, up to now I’ve never had that. I’ve always lived in apartments – so I’ve always had to dial it down, so to speak. So, I’m used to it but, whenever I do get to play real amps and stuff like that, I’m always like “oh yeah, this is how it’s supposed to be”.
Yeah – there’s nothing like cranking it up and getting hit in the face with a wall of noise!
Yeah, it’s nice for sure!
So, how did you get to join Katatonia?
I’m not totally… I mean, I am friends with old Katatonia members. But it was just so random. Jonas reached out through a friend that we both had. I didn’t know Jonas or anyone active in the band before and I really don’t know why he would be willing to risk it a bit with me, because… I mean, obviously, he knows I can stand on a stage and not shit myself, because I play in other bands [laughs]
But yeah, I don’t really know how it happened. I don’t know if someone vouched for me, but he reached out and then we had a little talk, played some shows, and quite early on, it just felt good. You feel it quite quick and I’m very honest about kind of everything. If you’re in a band and you’re going to be in a bus together for a long time, it’s better to be honest about stuff otherwise, it just becomes gnarly and it’s not that pleasant. That’s not for me; I don’t like it. I don’t need to be macho or anything like this. Let’s make some music, have some fun together and try our best and it’s going to be fucking fun, you know?
That’s really cool and, again, there’s a sense – I think – when you listen to a record, there’s a musical sense of coherence and chemistry and it feels like there’s a sense of excitement among the people playing.
I think yes. I think so as well. I think that this is the… I guess it’s also the timing, or something like this. You hear a lot of productions where it’s so polished, you know, and when it is so polished, you don’t get the feeling of a band… I don’t know, kind of. I mean, you can absolutely get that, but I guess this album is polished in a different way. It’s very roomy in a sense as well and I love the vibe on the album – that it’s there and that it feels like it’s been played, you know.
Because many times there are a lot of records where it’s too good, it’s too perfect. I have problems with that when I’m recording as well – I’ll tell myself it’s not good enough and want to do it again, but this time, it was just “go! Do it!”
And I’d be saying “OK, but I can do it better…”
“No!”
It’s more like this is more real, let’s say, and I do appreciate that.
Yeah – “roomy” is a good word. There’s a lot of dynamic, and I think that’s something that is often lost in modern productions. Songe like Thrice really grows – it’s got that huge riff at the beginning, and then the ending is really fucking heavy. It’s really fucking cool!
Yeah, I agree. Like I said, the production can become so fucking big. Adam’s really good with that. It’s amazing how our mixer can just give you this space. And I think that I would never say no to working with him again. Never. He’s a fucking master at his craft.
And then, further adding to the sense of the record as an album, it has this really cool artwork. How involved are the band with the art? It seems like there’s a real consistency across the albums.
Yeah. As far as I know, this is also… everything with the timing is a bit off because if you’re not completely in the band or probably going to be in the band but just focusing on the shows to see if it’s what I want to do as well – so, these things happened during those times for me. But yeah, this guy – Roberto Bordin – is the same guy who worked with Katatonia on Sky Void of Stars. He’s very professional and he gives the whole package.
I think that it’s cool that it’s different. It gives the vibe of the album as well because, even though it’s consistent with the other stuff, I feel it brings something different to the table in terms of the artwork as well. I think that this guy – Jonas likes to work with him because they have had some contact and, I mean, I think it’s such a cool thing. I’d love to be able to draw stuff, but I can’t do shit. I can do some graffiti stuff, but it looks like shit! But I really like, you know, people who are good artists in terms of drawing or designing stuff. I think it’s really cool.
For sure. Last but not least – what dates are you lining up for this album?
Yeah – in November and December we have a European tour with Evergrey and Kloger, and we have some dates in the UK.
Anyhow, we’re really looking forward to it. Katatonia is a band that likes to eat good food and drink good drinks, and you have a lot of that [laughs]. So, it’s always… we’ll have that European tour in November and December. It’s a lot of shows, actually. We’ll be out for maybe five or six weeks. We have some festivals in the summer in Europe as well, and some of the bigger festivals which I’m excited about. Wacken for example. It’s going to be fun. I’m just eager to get it going. It feels like we’re supposed to play live now! I just want to… you know, it’s been a while now. We did a show where we played Lilac for the first time and that was it. I want to get it going!
There’s a lot of waiting I think, because the album’s done but you can’t really play too much before it comes out.
Yeah. It makes sense. You can do whatever you want, or maybe you can’t if you have some legal stuff, but in the sense that, you know, you want to promote… we’d just released Lilac then, and we were just about to release Temporal – you know, it’s a good time to try it out and it felt good. I think it went well, and I think it’s going to be interesting to play some new songs from the new album in the festival summer that’s coming.
