Formed under the name Merciless Fail back in 2007, it took the recording of an EP entitled ‘forged in black’ and a more serious approach to material for the band Forged in Black to emerge. A metal 2 the masses win saw the band play Bloodstock in 2012, whilst two EPS (2013’s ‘The Tide’ and 2017’s exceptional ‘Sinner Sanctorum’) brought the band to wider attention, with the latter EP in particular racking up impressive reviews and earning the band a place at Hammerfest 2018. Headlining the second stage, the band delivered a taut performance that won over new fans (you can check out the review here) and we were lucky enough to catch up with them back stage shortly thereafter. As excitable as a troop of Rhesus monkeys, trying to contain their infectious enthusiasm is rather like trying juggle eels (don’t ask) and the interview frequently heads off on bizarre tangents, although the UK government may be interested as to the band’s revelations as to how they fund their studio activities.
Read on and meet Forged in Black…
You’ve been going for quite a while – about six years I think?
No, longer than that. Our first album was 2011 but we formed in 2007 under a different name and since then we’ve changed the name and progressed ever since.
You took the name from the final track of that first EP, is that right?
That’s correct, yes.
Our name before was merciless fail – it was a bit tongue in cheek thrash originally and then we got better singers and stuff and we had to take it a bit more seriously. Merciless fail just didn’t seem to sum it up anymore, so we took the track off the album and it seemed quite an apt name that summarises the different sounds of the band in one.
In terms of the different sounds, there’s the connection to the NWOBHM, but as others have noted there’s a touch of prog and some doom particularly on ‘sinner sanctorum’… it’s important to try to run with your influences but to create your own identity – how do you feel you developed that from the first album through to this latest effort?
[Long pause before Stoz suddenly blurts out] 100% [cue utterly baffled laughter from the rest of the band] it wasn’t ever a conscious decision. You have to go with what feels right to you and you try to better yourself as a musician and it just gets better and better.
On the first album it was… a lot of it was quite rooted in that New Wave style… it still had some modern influences and some breakdowns and a bit more of a groove, but fundamentally we did have that new wave influence. Then we moved on to ‘the tide’ – that sort of was a little bit more progressive and we used different scales to make it sound more Egyptian and then the last EP definitely made more of a prog turn, so yes you can definitely see that progression.
When people review us, it’s always a case of how to categorise us. We’ve had doom, NWOBHM, heavy metal… there’s no real pigeon hole and we’re pleased about it in that respect. We do like all that stuff, but when we sit down and write it’s not a case of “right we’re going to write a thrash song,” or “we’re going to write a doom song.” We don’t do that, we sit down and write a song together – all of us – and we just see what comes out. If we like it, we go with it. We’re not trying to involve any particular style in the writing – that just happens naturally. I think there’s something there in terms of traditional and modern heavy metal.
The advantage of the way that you approach the song writing is that you get a much more interesting ebb and flow across the record – I’m very much into albums rather than collections of songs and when you get that journey through the record. When it comes to putting together your recorded work – how much work goes into sequencing so that you get that journey?
On ‘sinner sanctorum’ Andy wrote a nine-minute song and we just stuck it on the end because it’s long. It wasn’t going to be the fast-paced opener, so we had no choice on that. I think with the EP, it was a bit of a happy coincidence. When we had the first mixes done, Chris put them all on a CD for us and it happened to be in a perfect order and it just happened to work really well.
You’re definitely right, though, because we always try to have that opener that is a bit atmospheric. A bit more… doomy, which makes it seem quite ominous. Then it goes into something more up beat and then there’s that 9-minute epic – that definitely had that closing feel. It’s very much a song that takes you on a journey. We’re writing the album at the moment which is almost finished. We’re in the studio in April and this week we’re talking about intros and trying to work out how to piece it all together and what structure to use. I think it was a lot more difficult when we did the first album – sequencing that together. When you have that many tracks and I think, up until that point, your first album is like a best of of what you’ve written to that point. It was more a collection of songs, so it was a challenge to put them together. With this, it’s something we’ve all worked on together for the last six months, so obviously there’s more of a feel right through it. Yeah, I think we’ve got a good set of songs.
I think the way you talked about that journey – we want to structure it in a way that we do it live. We want the audience to go with us on that journey as well, and we did it on the album and the EP so that sets the precedent for what you want to do in the live shows as well.
When you work with a producer, some can be very hands off and others can be much more intensely involved. Working with Chris Tsangarides – a legendary producer – how involved was he in helping you push the sound on the last EP.
We always go into the studio prepared – it’s quite expensive these days to go into the studio so we always make sure we’re not going to waste any time. We go in 90% ready to go and then we let the producer add some flair or whatever. With Chris – we used to go in and we’d spend half the time laughing at his stories. We’d just sit there chatting about Priest and Ozzy… he was a very charismatic man. He was very much a joy to be around. We’ve yet to have a producer who gets involved at the song-writing stage. It’s very much about the sound – a layer here or a flair…. No one’s sat down with us and actually worked on the songs. They might add a little bit – like “do a dive bomb here” and stuff like that. Chris was very hands on with individual moments… not necessarily the structure of the song, but he would like a particular bit and then add some cool delay. It was more about making moments bigger – exaggerating what was there rather than improving the arrangements. It was more about getting the most out of that particular moment on the track. Then we’d go back to the studios.
As you say it’s stupidly expensive – as an independent band how do you prepare to offset the expense of a recording and how long did the EP take?
The EPs were about a week each and we did both with Chris. Both were about a week – five days, something like that – so obviously everything was written in advance. We do all the demos ourselves because we can record at home… obviously not to the standard of a studio release – so that really helps. By going in with demos and having the idea of how it all sounds. It was quite tight last time because we were writing right up to two days before we went in. Then there was that nine-minute song dropped in a week before we had to record – which wasn’t very popular! It was all done. The demos were done. There was a little bit of writing while we were there – the odd lyrics or some solos. But it came out really well and we knew what we wanted to do.
It’s bad for the drummer because they’re the first person to record and then there’s here’s the nine-minute song that you need to do first…. Good luck!
In terms of expenses it’s mostly self-financed. We have to do various jobs… We had to kill a Russian spy the other day…. [much laughter]
That actually clears up a lot of questions…
Well, yeah, pay us more money and we’ll tell you all the details… Make sure you wash your hands after….
I’m never going to make it out of Wales, am I?
Stop “Putin” your foot in it… [laughter]
For financing we kind of… months before we just budget. We all have day jobs so, we look at how much time we’ve got and then, by the time it’s due, we’ll get the bailiffs out to certain member’s houses…. [the place dissolves once again…]
You mentioned that the drummer goes first, so how do you approach that – do the band’s play along to you to give you a guide or do you work to a click track or pre-recorded demos?
We do have… what we’ve got this time is we’ve got click on to the demos. Sometimes we have a ghost track and it depends on how I’m feeling when I’m playing. We’ve got click tracks on a couple of tracks at the moment, and it sounds fine.
‘Sinner Sanctorum’ was mostly playing along to the demos. It also depends on the producer. Chris would have been happy if we’d just played live and then added overdubs as needed. But who we’re recording with now wants it to click… Romesh Dodangoda, he’s done Phil Campbell and the Bastard sons… quite a few big things and he prefers it to click for editing purposes, so it’s all about tightness and clarity.
I think for the drummer, the real skill is to be able to play to the click but get that nice, fluid sound so it doesn’t sound like you’re playing to click.
Kev: The nice thing that Chris said was that it’s difficult getting drummers to click, but he said that I could do it, which was nice coming from him. And I can get that mid-way between it and still keep the flow, but if the click’s going, I’m fine with that. Some can’t play to it, and it is difficult at first. That’s years ago now, but it’s just getting used to it.
In terms of the lyrics, is that a band effort? How do you refine them to a final point?
I think all songs start with the song itself. The vibe of the actual music and the atmosphere of the song drives the lyrics. Stoz writes all the lyrics. But then he’ll send texts out saying: “I’ve got this idea – what do you think?” and we’ll look at it and then it’s like, “well, that’s too offensive… you can’t say that, it’s 2018!” Eventually he’ll get to one that he’s allowed to do. Or you’ll get a WhatsApp message at one in the morning – “what do you think?” [laughter] It’s never a concept album or anything like that, it’s always each song on its own merit.
It’s not necessarily going to stick like that, we could do something more conceptual.
It often comes from the title and then work backwards from there. But then, the song title, you think it’s great and then you try to write a great song.
Luckily Stoz has got a dictionary, so he finds some interesting words…. Although unfortunately it’s French… [at this point, Stoz starts singing] ‘coq au vin’… ‘escargooooooottttttttt!’ [the whole band start singing various French recipes…]
[Suffering flashbacks to an interview with Alestorm and trying to move away from French recipes] You went out and did a session with Ester Segarra recently – how do you feel that changed the way the band’s presented?
It showed that Andy doesn’t have to be ugly…
That’s Photoshop I’m assuming?
She’s very skilled and we just… she had great ideas about locations that we never would have known. We’d have just stood in front of a brick wall, or whatever, but she had this chapel and it was so perfect. You could literally take the image, which has an archway behind it, and it mimics that archway of the EP cover. We actually photoshopped them together at one point and it was perfect – it’s like we’re standing in the location of the cover. It’s perfect. We’ve always been aware of the image and making sure it fits together. I guess our style on stage and what we wear and making it uniformed in a way. On that photoshoot we made sure we had stuff that unified us all – black t shirts, so you know, you look like you’re part of the same unit. There’s a lot of religious imagery in the lyrics of that EP and to have it in a chapel really sums it up and makes us look like religious cult figures which…. Stoz actually is. We won’t go into that…
[Stoz, looking somewhat baffled: I’m as religious as an Easter egg!]
Bless you my child! Any final words?
Oh, don’t give us that!
Keep a look out for the album. At the back end of the year, we’re supporting White Wizzard in Camden Underworld. We haven’t got many gigs penned in because we’re dealing with album stuff. But in the meantime, ‘sinner sanctorum’ is available on all major streaming services, so if anyone wants to check us out… keep your eyes peeled on social media – there’s a lot coming up and keep an eye out for our CDs in any charity shops…
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